Curse

Yichi · Mar 22, 2006, 03:57 PM // 15:57

im still amazed at how many ppl thing that a mm has to be n/mo... echo is such a useful skill on veritas...

Yes monks are usually good. little hint for the bonder... bring essence bond to throw on gear/keg tank

healer can use this too.

i love playing bonder there and having my energy bar full during a fight

Carinae · Mar 22, 2006, 04:03 PM // 16:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by UltimateWarrior101

Minion Master:
.... Your elite skill should be Offering of Blood or Tainted Flesh. .... Put as many points in soul reaping as you have leftover from death.

Um, that's a contradiction isn't it? How can I load up OoB if all my points are in SR? You're probably running OoB if you are also running Healing.

So basically, it should read: "Put as many points in Soul Reaping as you have leftover from Death, Blood and/or Healing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by floplag

see threads like this are, to me, part of whats wrong in the game right now.

The best thing that could happen to PvE would be randomized mob composition every instance, maybe even with some degree of skill variation on the monsters.

No super-specialized build would be possible, since you wouldn't know what you were going to face.

That, and kill the gear trick.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistressYichi

im still amazed at how many ppl thing that a mm has to be n/mo... echo is such a useful skill on veritas...

Cause your saccing a LOT of health without self-healing. Then the monk has to cover you doing your job, as well as mitigate team damage.

And when he doesn't.... they yell at the monk, not the MM who caused the problem.

Yichi · Mar 22, 2006, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood

Cause your saccing a LOT of health without self-healing. Then the monk has to cover you doing your job, as well as mitigate team damage.

And when he doesn't.... they yell at the monk, not the MM who caused the problem.

ok try this trick and when you have double the amount of minions because they are not constantly degenning, then you being a monk wont mind the occasional heal other on the necro due to the fact that you have twice the army you normally have.

bobrath · Mar 22, 2006, 05:06 PM // 17:06

My healing monk brings along distracting shot. Its amazing how often this one skill makes up for the "incompetent" or missing SS necro.

There are tons of variations to the standard 5 man team. For instance a good Ranger can shutdown just as effectivly as a SS necro.

bobrath · Mar 22, 2006, 05:08 PM // 17:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood

Cause your saccing a LOT of health without self-healing. Then the monk has to cover you doing your job, as well as mitigate team damage.

And when he doesn't.... they yell at the monk, not the MM who caused the problem.

SO once you're in the forge and the tank has the gear... how difficult is it to toss a breeze on the MM every once in a while? Come on now. Once a MM gets his army rolling, monks tend to be almost as bored as the tank.

Carinae · Mar 22, 2006, 05:17 PM // 17:17

I know about the trick, you can do it with Glyph of Renewal also. It's not all it's cracked up to be.

Where does this idea come from that an extra 9 seconds of VS doubles your minion count? Cause thats all you gain, and at a HUGE sacrifice penalty. Did you completely discount HA?

Sure you can maintain VS constantly, but take a look at the price it costs:

N/E running GoR+VS casts both every 15 seconds. Assuming 480 health on the necro, thats 288 health per minute, not counting BotM, which can push that to beyond 400 health per minute....continuously, for as long as you have minions.

N/Me running AE/Echo + VS is very similar.

Run whatever you want though, run W/N MM if it makes you happy

LittleBull · Mar 22, 2006, 05:18 PM // 17:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigTru

I love how PvErs feel they are doomed to failure or inefficient if they don't have the exact same build, skill-for-skill, attribute-for-attribute or if they try something differant.

Amusing.

Don't tell me... You're a PvP IWAY drone right?

jciardha · Mar 22, 2006, 05:19 PM // 17:19

I'm a mesmer. What role is there for me?

Oh, that's right. There isn't one.

Got to love the cookie-cutter mentality.

M E A T B A L L · Mar 22, 2006, 05:30 PM // 17:30

Hey there from M E A T B A L L ^^
Well if you want green items, just ask me for advice

Here are some screens from 2 men sorrow furnace runs

http://img128.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gw2556ak.jpg
http://img505.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gw2516ne.jpg
http://img505.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gw2528em.jpg
http://img133.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gw2537fd.jpg
http://img505.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gw2589ig.jpg
http://img505.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gw2590mt.jpg

You can see the name of the bosses that are dead with the green letters

you usually get like 3-4 min items from all the bosses. Thats like 2 per run.
Thats the minimum, sometimes you can get like 8-9 items ^^

1 good warrior > any NPC in the game ^^

Carinae · Mar 22, 2006, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobrath

SO once you're in the forge and the tank has the gear... how difficult is it to toss a breeze on the MM every once in a while? Come on now. Once a MM gets his army rolling, monks tend to be almost as bored as the tank.

I never said other combinations don't work. But they are taking advantage of an exploit (gear trick) and in most cases, call it skill.

The day they fix the gear trick, will be the day N/E and N/Me dies as a MM build. Then the monks will have actual work to do, and you won't see sloppy inefficient builds propped up by exploits.

Then the real strengths of N/R and N/Mo will come to light, until then....run whatever makes you smile.

Jeremy Untouchable · Mar 22, 2006, 05:33 PM // 17:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by jciardha

I'm a mesmer. What role is there for me?

Oh, that's right. There isn't one.

Got to love the cookie-cutter mentality.

mesmer can mm, or healing or interupt in furnace

Tictac · Mar 22, 2006, 05:40 PM // 17:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob of Maple Ave

Despite a couple of apparent rough spots (I wouldn't know), this is a very useful thread IMO. I've decided to shelve my (apparently) useless Ele for these higher missions and am working on a Necro specifically for farming SF and other places.

Hopefully, this will go a long way towards saving me from a lot of "You Idiot!" and "WTF! N00B!" type comments. Thanks

I use my Ele for SF, UW, Tombs, and FoW runs. My guild does a lot of balanced teams in these areas and a good nuker is a must. Ele's are in no way useless. They are fun to play with and can rip off some serious damage to whole groups a lot quicker than an SS could get the whole group cursed. Never doubt the power of a good ele. See this thread for my advanced Nuker build.

studentochaos · Mar 22, 2006, 05:41 PM // 17:41

Looking through this I have a feeling this thread will soon turn into build nazi and anti-build nazi debate. To preempt this with more productive discussion:

The only person you should bring into any team farm run (if you can) should be a person who makes you laugh, reguardless of their build.

The best gear tank build I have seen is a R/E.

N/Me, N/Mo, and N/E minion mancers are equally good, the pilot is always the difference.

I would replace the MM or SS with a fire ele, dom mes (seen it run a couple dozen times), or barrage ranger ANY day of the week.

SS is not broken, it is just easy to use. If SS was nerfed to do less dam or a slower recharge or more energy cost it would create a large number of slow moving farm groups too babied by SS to stop using it while making it terrible for PvP. If AI was made to flee or stop attacking because SS was on it, it would instantly be the most powerful PvE spell ever and the SS necro would be required in every party from Kryta on.

floplag · Mar 22, 2006, 05:46 PM // 17:46

well said jciardha

i find it amusing that they speak of a ranger being able to shut something down, but no love for the mesmers ?

Matsumi · Mar 22, 2006, 05:55 PM // 17:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigTru

I love how PvErs feel they are doomed to failure or inefficient if they don't have the exact same build, skill-for-skill, attribute-for-attribute or if they try something differant.

Amusing.

I second that... I don't think I would ever join a group that was this way, and I don't like to play my characters like they're somebody else's robot. If I get into a group with somebody and they tell me exactly what skills to bring and in what order, I usually leave and tell them they should hench it. Reminds me of a time when I strolled into the tombs area with a R/Me, but nobody would accept me into a B/P team because I wasn't a R/Mo. Even though I had barrage, lvl 20 pet, and spirits, nobody wanted me. I asked why, and somebody told me, because I didn't have rebirth.

EternalTempest · Mar 22, 2006, 06:09 PM // 18:09

Or you can use a nuker that's use to nuking if you can't get the required people ...

It's ok if things are not exact, and if you force people that are not use to a build, it may not go so smooth you have to go with the flow sometimes.

I'm a monk and have good builds that work, but when I'm told to say do X, I'm fumbling with skills and timming (sometimes) due to most group not taking on the small mob groups (that can be avoided) along the way to get my practice in with said build.

Try other things.

Misa · Mar 22, 2006, 06:18 PM // 18:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by UltimateWarrior101

Minion Master:
16 Death Magic is a must. Your role is to make minions and keep them alive. You do not need to bring attack skills. Deathly swarm should not be on your skillbar. Bring fiends and horrors. Your elite skill should be Offering of Blood or Tainted Flesh. There's no need for you to bring spiteful spirit. Put as many points in soul reaping as you have leftover from death.

A normal MM will have atleast 2 open skill bars. Deathly swarm is not a bad skill to use in the beginning. As things starting to die, then the MM should stop using it and concentrate on making minions.

It is very important for a MM to heal his/her minions (don't fully depend on monk's heal area because BoM heals more.) I have seen MM who just run around making minion without healing them -_- Without mainting a large number of minions, MM's ability to body block and attack will decrease greatly.

I personally like to use Tainted Flesh on the W before he/she runs to the mobs. TF only costs 5 energy and disease helps to kill stuff faster.

Lord Flash Heart · Mar 22, 2006, 06:27 PM // 18:27

I can understand the frustration of the OP, but i have to agree with the notions that almost any 5 man build will work for farming. Ok, some will be more effective then others.
Being a fairly incompetent monk myself (people who played with me agree, i always end up dead 1st),but when we do farming with friends or guildies we always fill up the last 1 or 2 slots with someone random, and we let them bring the skills they like most to play with. It seems more effective to let people play with what they like, instead of demanding them to bring skills that they might feel uncomfortable with, or are inexperienced with. Also a friendly non-demanding attitude always does do wonders for team spirit. It always ends up being lots of fun, and no-one even complains if i forget that i am the monk and not the groups tank and we get a wipe out.

In conclusion: Less demanding = More fun = less complaints

(if anyone likes to die under my monking supervision, just PM me and we will try to have fun going down)

Flash Heart, aka Lady Flashheart

Count to Potato · Mar 22, 2006, 06:31 PM // 18:31

Shouldn't people who are new the Sorrow learn by themselves, thats the point to learn isn't it, my opinion is ur cheating the newcomers by giving them an easy way, yet there is still some leniceny in the necro ss skills

swiftygem · Mar 22, 2006, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by UltimateWarrior101

Spiteful Spirit:
16 Curses a must. You must be a Necromancer/mesmer. Don't bother arguing, N/Me is the most effective SS build. You MUST bring Spinal Shivers. Without that, killing monk bosses is going to take forever, or it will be impossible. Other than spiteful spirit and spinal shivers and arcane echo, you're pretty much free to bring whatever you want. I like to bring malaise, parasitic bond, and weaken armor, a hex removal from the mesmer skillbase, mantra of resolve, and rez sig or blood ritual. There is no need for you to bring any attack skills, and do not bring Mark of Pain. It causes enemies to scatter, making Spiteful less effective.

I'd say that Awaken the Blood is a must as well.....